- That's something that has definitely, as a postdoc, it's been a transition from being a graduate student and an undergraduate in a way, and being mentored, and kind of looking up to everyone, to transitioning to, "Okay, some people are looking up to me now in some settings," and obviously, I'm still looking up to a whole bunch of people too. So it's this transition to being in between and starting to turn around and share that, and give back to grad students and other colleagues. And I think the part I like the most about that is bridging connections, connecting people, and being the connector between different groups of people, and different levels, and different disciplines. I really enjoy that connection.

- [Announcer] You're listening to "Further Together," the ORAU podcast. Join Michael Holtz and his guests for conversations about all things ORAU. They'll talk about ORAU's storied history, our impact on an ever-changing world, our innovative scientific and technical solutions for our customers, and our commitment to the communities where we do business. Welcome to "Further Together," the ORAU podcast.

- Welcome to "Further Together," the ORAU podcast. The NASA National Postdoctoral program gives scientists at any level the opportunity to help NASA pursue its mission, while also experiencing the world's most diverse technology and expertise. I recently had the opportunity to talk to several NASA NPP fellows about their research, their personal stories, and what comes next in their careers. This episode features one of those conversations. I hope you'll enjoy it as much as I do. So, Erica, talk about who you are, your current role with the NASA NPP Fellows Program, and tell me a little bit about your background.

- Yeah, so my name's Erica and I'm a postdoc at Penn State University working with the Laboratory for Agnostic Biosignatures, which is a group of people spread across the US and actually internationally as well. So I'm currently based at Penn State, and I basically look at rocks from the ancient earth, and try and figure out whether there's life inside, and why there's life inside.

- Oh, cool. Well, that's a big question. So not only the "if," but the "why."

- Yeah, or how, I guess. Why do we think this thing we're looking at is life?

- Gotcha, and how did it get there?

- How did it get there? What has it gone through in the millions and sometimes billions of years of its history?

- That sounds really interesting. How did you get to do this work?

- Oh, that's a bit of a long story. So, I'm originally from Australia. I've been in the US as a postdoc for just over a year now. So I did my undergraduate and PhD studies in Sydney and Australia, and I guess, going all the way back to high school, like, I didn't necessarily know I would go to university, but I really enjoyed science. I really enjoyed being outside in the outdoors and nature, and it kind of just led me to studying environmental science. I applied, I got in, I went, "Well, I might as well do it, I'm in, in undergraduate," and it's just kind of I followed my nose from there, just the curiosity, and being outside, and dealing with the natural world. That's kind of what's got me to where I am today, just curiosity and interest.

- Sure, so you've always been interested in science, but didn't necessarily think that it would evolve into a career.

- Yeah, I had no idea. I mean, I almost in a way still have no idea what a career in science would look like, because everyone's paths, everyone I speak to of any career level, they've all done completely different paths to get where they are at that point. And so, yeah, I don't know that there's one specific way, or career path, or career as a scientist. It's very individual, and, yeah, and everyone's different.

- Sure, sure. How has being part of the NASA NPP program, how has being a fellow impacted your career? I mean, I know you said you've been in the program a year, but obviously you're doing incredible work. So what's the impact of that been for you?

- It's been an amazing experience to move overseas to live in the States, to have all of the, I guess, the ability to connect with all of these different people, NASA connections. Astrobiology is my field, so astrobiology and geobiology, connecting with all these people that I've read about. I've read their work. I might have seen them at a conference far away, but to actually meet with these people, and get to get talking with them, and thinking about how my work can fit into theirs, and collaborate and everything. It's been amazing. And to have the NPP, it's really allowed me to work on my own research project, which is not super common as a postdoc. Often you join a team, and the project's already defined and the funding's already there, and you have to work on this specific thing, but being able to propose my own ideas and my own research, and to be able to follow all the nooks and crannies, and kind of have my own timeline of, "Okay, this is what I wanna do and why," and have that be developing over the past year and a bit has been awesome. And you can't do that anywhere else. Right.

- Yeah, basically.

- For sure. So you talked a bit about getting to meet and work with these people that you've read their papers, you've read their books, you know that they're superstars in science. What is it like being mentored by some of these folks and having a mentored research experience?

- It's been really great. Everyone I've met, and spoken to, and been in touch with, they've all been really welcoming and supportive into the community. They've been super generous with their time, their advice, ideas, feedback on my work, and how it can connect with other people's work. And I've just had a really good experience so far. It's honestly been really great.

- That's awesome. You talked about the opportunity to do basically your own research project, but I also have to imagine that there's room for collaboration and science is a collaborative process. So how has it been working in collaboration with other scientists for NASA.

- Something that is difficult to do from Australia? Right.

- So, yeah, it's been much easier to get in touch with people here when you're on the ground in the States, and have the ability through the NASA postdoc program travel funds to go to the person's lab and meet with them, see what they're doing in person, go to conferences and connect, and reconnect with people, and build those connections, and branch out. There's a whole bunch of people that I'm working with that I didn't know, I hadn't met a year ago. So it's awesome.

- That's great. Is there a time, Erica, that you've faced a sizable obstacle traveling to the United States, it might be one of those, or being in Australia and not reaching scientists, but is there a time that you faced a sizable obstacle and how did you overcome that obstacle? I know this sounds like we're doing a job interview.

- Yeah, a little bit. No, all good. I think probably the most recent one, and it's an obstacle I'm still facing, is trying to get your work published in the scientific, in journals. For some things that it gets in and you work with the reviewers, and you improve the manuscript, and it's fine, and other times you've gotta jump over the hurdles, and deal with rejections, and be able to come around to just keeping on and persevering, and trying to publish, because that's what it's all about. It's about finding something cool and sharing it with people. And the way that we do that as researchers is, one of the ways, at least, is through journal articles. So, yeah, the obstacle has been persevering in getting things published, I think, and it's something I'm still working on. I've got a big backlog of things to get out there.

- So you need somebody to start, right? Yeah.

- Awesome. We talked a little bit about being mentored. Have you had the opportunity to mentor other scientists?

- Yeah, definitely. And that's something that is definitely, as a postdoc, it's been a transition from being a graduate student and an undergraduate in a way, and being mentored, and kind of looking up to everyone, to transitioning to, "Okay, some people are looking up to me now in some settings," and obviously I'm still looking up to a whole bunch of people too, so it's this transition to being in between, and starting to turn around, and share that and give back to grad students and other colleagues. And I think the part I like the most about that is bridging connections, connecting people and being the connector between different groups of people, and different levels, and different disciplines. I really enjoy that connection.

- Very cool. That sounds awesome. What advice, along the lines of up and coming scientists, what advice would you give to an up and coming scientist who maybe wants to follow in your footsteps or wants to, in your case, find your own path? What would you say?

- I would say find what you're interested in, which is often a difficult thing to do, but follow your passion if you have it, and if you don't have a thing that you love yet, be curious, and explore, and find something that you enjoy doing, and then follow that path, and keep at it. So, it's funny that.... So the Mars rovers, the Curiosity Rover and the Perseverance Rover, I think those two words are really critical in the science that we do be curious and persevere like there really are keystone to what we do. So that would be my advice.

- Very cool. Very, very cool. Why would you recommend a NASA NPP fellowship to others?

- Two big things. It takes you generally out of the realm of where you were. And whether that's moving internationally or not, you're moving labs, you're doing something usually entirely different. And second, the ability to work on your own proposal, the support that you get to just work on your own ideas and foster those ideas. That for sure is why I would recommend the NPP. So the third point, the travel funding is great. So you get to go to conferences and visit labs or do field work, and really make those connections, build the connections with scientists in your area.

- Talk more about that. So you've gotten to travel to conferences, have you been able to present at conferences as well?

- Yes, I've been busy at quite a few conferences this year and that's one part I really enjoy about the job as well is presenting and sharing the work I mentioned earlier about, we communicate what we do through journal articles, but also it's at conferences to other scientists and that's the point where you really find the interlock between what you do and how that fits in with what everyone else does. And the cool thing there is you start to make connections like, "Oh, that helps with this, that means that this equals this, or it really builds on everyone's work by going to conferences, and chatting to people, and presenting your work.

- Very cool. Last question for you, Dr. Erica Barlow. What brings you joy?

- What brings me joy? Definitely nature, which you might have gathered from my earlier part of our interview. I really enjoy solving puzzles of any kind. And I think that 100% bleeds into the science that I do. It's trying to solve the puzzle of the early life on Earth, the environments they lived in. What information can we gather from so long ago? Yeah, it's definitely puzzle solving.

- Very cool. And figuring out, how did that life exist?

- Yes.

- If in fact--

- He's alive in the first place. Yeah.

- Wonderful. Dr. Barlow, thank you so much for spending this time with me. I really appreciate it.

- No problem, thank you for having me.

- My pleasure.

- Thank you for listening to "Further Together," the ORAU podcast. To learn more about any of the topics discussed by our experts, visit www.orau.org. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn, @ORAU, and on Instagram, @ORAUTOGETHER. If you like "Further Together," the ORAU podcast, we would appreciate you giving us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your reviews will help more people find the podcast.