- Technically, this is one of my first long-term postdoctorate fellowship. And you see yourself proposing projects like very tiny, and they grow and grow and grow, and they start making sense, and you have the resources to make it bigger, and then suddenly, you are your own researcher. So that happened to me, and I think it's fantastic.

- [Announcer] You're listening to Further Together, the ORAU podcast. Join Michael Holtz and his guests for conversations about all things ORAU. They'll talk about ORAU's storied history, our impact on an ever-changing world, our innovative scientific and technical solutions for our customers, and our commitment to the communities where we do business. Welcome to Further Together, the ORAU podcast.

- Welcome to Further Together, the ORAU podcast. Recently, I had the opportunity to speak with several NASA National Postdoctoral Program research fellows about the amazing work that they're doing. And I gotta tell you, I think you'll agree with me: their work is amazing and it's very interesting. If you're a space junkie like I am, you're gonna nerd out on these conversations. Enjoy. So, Dr. Alejandro Borlaff, let's talk about who you are. Tell me your current role at NASA in the NPP Fellows Program and tell me a little bit about your background. How did you get to where you are?

- Well, I'm Alex. I'm a PhD. I have a PhD in astronomy, astrophysics. I started my career in Spain, where I studied physics in Madrid, then I moved to Canary Islands to work with the telescopes in the Roque de los Muchachos in La Palma. I did my PhD there studying galaxy evolution and how to operate with telescopes. And during my PhD, I started working with the space telescopes, like Hubble. And I, well, I basically focused my last half of my PhD in how to improve Hubble to... Became some kind of an ophthalmologist for space telescopes. When I finished my PhD, I started with a very short-term, six months, postdoc in the European Space Agency, and I started working in there for a future space telescope called Euclid, which will be launched next year. When I was there, I applied to many positions, and one of them was NASA Ames, as a part of the NPP program, and I got selected. And then it was 2019, and I just finished my NPP two weeks ago. And I'll be continuing after amazing experience I have in doing the NPP. I will continue my work in NASA Ames, and then during next two years as part of the varied NASA Ames collaborative projects, and two grants that we obtained in this year.

- Very cool. Have you always been interested in science? Was that something that came to you later? Was that something that, as a kid, sort of fed your soul?

- Well, in my case, I think it was natural. I mean, I've been always... I've been always very interested in nature, really, and engineering. I mean, I always wanted to know how things worked. I think it goes as a part of family. I mean, they are all... My parents, they are very interested in these kind of things. And yeah, been exposed to it since I was a kid, so it grew natural, just something that grows over time. And then, at some point, I became more interested into space, so NASA was a natural way.

- Sure, makes perfect sense. You said you just finished your NASA NPP experience a couple weeks ago. It seems like we know how it's impacted your career, since you're gonna continue your work for the next couple of years, but how has your experience been as a NASA NPP fellow? I mean, it sounds like you've done some really incredible work with space telescopes and with just all of that amazing stuff that people tend to be... You know, they see pictures and they're really interested in what's happening out in space with the Hubble and other space telescopes.

- There is. Well, in my particular case, I think that more personally, it impact me in an amazing way, because, I mean, this is my first... I've been before, traveling abroad in Europe and working for short times, but this is my first time moving to the other side of the world, and I'm working, and working here is, it's just amazing. I mean, it's like, "Wow, dream come true." And in a more professional way, it's the amount of resources and people that you can meet, they are top level of what they do. I mean, you go to an office and you meet the person who made the camera for that specific space telescope three years ago, and they are just there. I mean, they're right there working with you, and that's amazing. In more particular, NASA Ames allowed me to work with the SOFIA science team, and I even got to fly with them this year, in one of the last flights, and learn how stratospheric test codes work, which is amazing. So in every single level, there's been a fantastic experience.

- Top notch all the way. Talk about... The NASA NPP is a mentor program. Talk about your mentor, and even really before NASA, you've had, I assume have several mentors who helped guide your career and guide your path. What has that been like for you?

- Well, I've been super lucky. My mentor is Pamela Marcum, she's working at NASA Ames. And we are still working together, I mean, we were... The last year have been a nonstop working to gain a couple of grants that will support us, our work, during the next three years. But apart from that, it has been an incredibly hard work, and something that I had no idea. I mean, she teach me... She taught me everything about grant submission and proposal preparation. But apart from that, she's been amazing from the scientific point of view and personal point of view. I mean, again, in my personal case, I had many things to learn. I mean, not only how to learn how to work at NASA, but also how to live in the United States. You know, everything, from getting invited to Thanksgiving, yeah, to work in this environment, which is huge. Many opportunities that you just don't know, if you don't have a very personal mentor that works for you. So it's, I don't know, it's almost like it became a friendship relationship.

- Okay.

- Yeah.

- Well, have you had the opportunity to mentor younger scientists along the way?

- Yeah, yeah. I've been very lucky in that sense. In 2021, sorry, in 2021, we started a masters thesis project in Spain. That was a personal decision; I wanted to get involved people from my homeland in NASA projects, like, you know, try to enhance the opportunity that I had to work in NASA. And it was absolutely great that we were able to get some student from Spain and help him to get a PhD in Latin America. And very recently, we started another master's project with another student. From a more personal perspective, I think I learned a lot because I had very recent, my experience as a student from a master's and degree level. And I remember all the stress, and all the exams, and all the uncertainty of what I'm going to do in the next moment. And being able to meet them and talk to them and give some advice that I hope is useful, I think is very empowering.

- Very cool. Talk, too, if you will, about collaboration. I know collaboration is really important in science, really important at NASA in particular. What has it been like collaborating with other scientists who maybe they're not exactly interested in, or pursuing the work that you are, but you're still working together on different aspects of the space telescopes or... You know?

- Well, something that... I think a privilege that you get when you are working at NASA is that it's a very good presentation letter. When you talk to a collaboration that's working in something that you may be interested in some aspects, and you present yourself as an NPP program student, I think it opens many doors. I mean, people are interested in what you're doing. They believe that you are doing a good work because you have been selected there, and it opens many doors. I mean, I've been very privileged to have that. I was able to join many top-level collaborations. I mean, the Euclid Space Telescope mission, it is a flagship mission of the European Space Agency, and also in collaboration with NASA. And I was able to become some kind of a bridge between NASA and European Space Agency, in that sense, during these three years. I've been also working with other teams here, in JPL, Colorado. There are some groups that we will start working now, in the next years, from Goddard. I don't know, I think that the advantage of NASA is that there are many disciplines working at the same time and in the same place, and you are able to get that from a broader dimension of fields. And when you apply techniques from one field to another one, then things, very, very interesting things, happen, because no one thought about, "Oh, this is very interesting, and you are applying this in geology." And, "Okay, we can use this in astronomy," and it's, "Pop!" Then something interesting happened.

- Very cool. And from what I've heard talking to other folks is, NASA is the kind of place where you sort of come with your ideas, and you're able to pursue those ideas and figure things out, and pursue sort of where that goes.

- Yeah, in fact well, in my case, I don't know if all the NPPs are like this, but my case, the project that we pursued during these three years, and many other projects that came up in the way, I proposed it to my mentor. She was very interested and we started digging up ideas and shaping the final project. But I think it was very interesting because it's very open. You propose your project, and they help you to shape it into something that it's interesting for NASA to invest their resources in it. And then if you got selected, then okay, get to work. I mean, it's your own project. And that's the whole idea of it after the NPP. I mean, if you want to continue, you can apply these techniques that you have learned in there all the time, to have more projects and your own research. Yeah, I mean, it's very, very interesting and it's a huge learning experience.

- It sounds like a very empowering place as well.

- Yeah. It's almost scary. Yeah, because you grew up very fast and you see yourself... Technically, this is one of my first long-term postdoctorate fellowship. And you see yourself proposing projects like very tiny, and they grow and grow and grow, and they start making sense, and you have the resources to make it bigger, and then suddenly, you are your own researcher. So that happened to me, and I think it's fantastic.

- Awesome. Alex, what advice would you give to an up-and-coming scientist who may be following in your footsteps?

- Well, I've been thinking about this a lot. I think that the greatest advice I can think of is that when you're working into... You want to apply to something and you want to work, you have an idea of what you want to become, I think it's a good idea to have... I mean, sometimes projects are very hard to obtain, to achieve, or maybe they don't end up like you thought of. And one good idea is to have many things, many projects, that you are interested in, and many, many places to work, many fields to study, many people to meet. Many ideas that you can put them, you know, trial by fire and see what stands. In my case, before I applied to the NPP, I had to apply to many, many other positions, and all of them were failed, almost all of them. And when I applied, when I wasn't in the NPP, we had many projects that we tried to make them work, and some of them didn't work. Some of them did work. For example, there are things that work in the beginning, and they don't last as you think. Like for example, in my case, the participation in the SOFIA mission was very interesting. In the end, it was canceled. But we get to do some amazing experience in the beginning. So it was fantastic. And after that, we had the same experience over and over and over. So I think that the trick is to apply to many almost impossible things, to get one great thing at the end. Because if you like many of them, at the end, you get one, you only need one. I think that's my advice.

- Okay. I love that advice. Why would you recommend the NASA NPP fellowship for other people?

- Well, I recommended the NASA NPP fellowship to many other people that were working with me in the PSE and abroad, outside the United States. And the main reason is, it really changed my life in all the ways. I mean, from a personal perspective, moving from the other side of the world to be here and get to learn, that's just amazing. In a professional way, you get to work with the top people and learn from them directly. And also, when you are surrounded by such amazing people, something starts inside. And in the end, you see yourself like one of them. And that's fantastic. I think that I wouldn't be the scientist I am, if I hadn't been there, here in Ames, during the last three years. So, I don't know. It's really hard. I think it's really hard, to get inside, but there are many opportunities and there are many fields that they are working in, so I would absolutely recommend to apply.

- Awesome. Last question for you, Alex. What brings you joy?

- Joy? That's a good question. I think learning. I like learning new things. Sometimes, I don't know if I'm being too honest, but sometimes it can get me in trouble, because you're getting many projects, different projects, and many ideas that are... You get too curious, and you get learning, and NASA is very risky for that because you can do many things. So I would say learning.

- Okay. That's a great answer. Alex Borlaff, thank you so much for-

- Thank you.

- spending the last few minutes with me and talking a little bit about who you are and what you're working on. I really appreciate it.

- Thank you so much.

- Thank you, have a great rest of your day.

- You, too.

- [Announcer] Thank you for listening to Further Together, the ORAU podcast. To learn more about any of the topics discussed by our experts, visit www.orau.org. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn, @ORAU, and on Instagram, @ORAUTOGETHER. If you like Further Together, the ORAU podcast, we would appreciate you giving us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your reviews will help more people find the podcast.